While LSAC is denying nursing moms extra time on the LSAT to pump breastmilk, they recently granted double-time to a test-taker with ADD.The Star-Tribune reports that LSAC just reached a settlement with the Justice Department over the following case of a test-taker with ADD and a learning disability:
As part of the settlement, the council agreed to double the standard testing time on each section and to allow the complainant breaks between sections, a separate and quiet testing area, permission to use his own computer for the writing section, permission to use scratch paper and use of an alternative answer sheet.The test-taker in question has "received testing accommodations from elementary school through his graduation in three years from the University of Minnesota in 2009, including on national standardized tests such as PSAT, SAT and Advanced Placement exams."
So, instead of 3 35-minute sections back-to-back, followed by a 15-minute break, then followed by 3 more 35-minute sections back-to-back (including the writing sample), this test-taker gets 70 minutes to complete each section and plenty of breaks.
Given the time pressure that LSAT test-takers are under, this is the law school admissions equivalent of getting a Golden Ticket to Willy Wonka's magical chocolate factory.
Continuing this ironical journey down the rabbit hole (yes, I'm mixing childhood metaphors - deal with it) the attorney for one complainant who got double-time stated:
"They [LSAC] are of the belief that giving extra time is giving an advantage, but there is no credible proof that that's the case."
This is the same attorney who filed 7 different lawsuits against LSAC arguing that his clients should be given extra time on the LSAT.
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Most importantly, what will happen to these would-be lawyers when they have to take their law school exams and the bar? Will they get double-time then, too?
What happens when they have to enter the real world? Do you want them doubling their billable hours on your case?
Leave your thoughts in the comments!
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Further reading: How to apply to get extra time on the LSAT
Photo by flickerbulb
Well personally, I have ADD and Dyslexia...I never like using them as a crutch and never have, until I started studying for the LSAT. The way the test is constructed really hits at the weaknesses these disabilities cause. Especially questions with word reversal. I'm not quite sure if I agree with allowing for that much time difference, but I do think some should be allowed. No matter how much I practice timing or comprehension skills, or even skills aimed at fixing my dyslexia, nothing seems to work in relation to the LSAT. Saying that people who receive extra time might not succeed in law school or in the legal profession due to no extra time given is inappropriately insensitive. There are ways to get around the disabilities in life, having more sleepless nights, re-reading cases or briefs, what have you.
ReplyDeleteI'm in the same boat as Alyssa.
DeleteI also think it is harsh and insensitive to say that requiring additional time on the LSAT will interfere with one's success in law school or as a lawyer.
I also have ADHD and dyslexia. I have written the LSAT's twice (without accommodation). I agree with Alyssa that the test plays up your weaknesses. I have always done well in school, things take me longer but that's fine, I am willing to put in the extra effort.
To say that receiving accommodation creates an unfair advantage assumes that a level playing field would exist otherwise. The purpose of testing accommodation is to give individuals with learning disabilities a fair chance.
English is my second language and i sometimes have to read a phrase twice or more in order to understand it...is that not a type of disability? should i be given more time on a wordy exam to level the playing field?...i think the answer is clearly no. which is why i study my ass off every day trying to make up for my inadequacies relative to US born lawyers-to-be, otherwise i would accept the fact that law school is not for me. ever since the Americans with Disabilities Act, things of this sort have been getting out of control. some people are simply unable to do certain things, and would be best off finding something they can do and are good at, rather than depend on a politically correct, equalizing laws that try to ram them down a profession's throat. and the market is already crowded and cutthroat. every profession has barriers to entry, and they're there for a reason. law is no exception.
ReplyDeleteActually, no. That's not a disability. No comparison.
DeleteAre you sure you don't have a disability yourself? Would love to see how your lsat scores line up with these untimed reasoning skills you've put on full display
DeleteI completely agree with Nick. We each have challenges that threaten our success in various parts of our lives and almost all of these challenges can be overcome in some way. Medication is one way to control ADD; behavioral therapy is another. It's not like it takes doing the impossible to find an approach that enables you to be successful. Overcoming a challenge might require a little extra work, and other people might not have the same challenge. But as Steve said, what about when these individuals get to the real world? They'll be forced to contend with their issues then or have lessened success. The bar can't be lowered through the goal of "equality" at every step of the way.
ReplyDeleteThis is just a really slippery slope. What if you've been an insomniac your entire life- should you be allowed to take the exam later in the day so you have a level of alertness equal with others? What if you have panic attacks? Should you be allowed to excuse yourself to go calm down, or be able to take it in a more comfortable setting? There are challenges everywhere, and at some point you have to either face it or choose a different path.
This is the comment I was looking for. Couldn't agree more.
Delete140 level reasoning right here. You just brought the entire validity of the LSAT into question when it's taken by people with disabilities. Unless you block anyone with a disability that affects their performance from taking this exam, they will receive a score far lower than their reasoning abilities. This will give a nice %ile boost to people who are actually less capable of logical reasoning, such as yourself.
DeleteWhat about the LSAT mirrors law school or the real world? Please explain. Oh wait, it correlates moderately with first year grades at law schools that emphasize time-pressured grading. Guess we can analogize the LSAT to life and the entirety of law school based off that moderate first year correlation to some schools!
You do not overcome neurological disabilities by hard work lol, this was an extremely ignorant and clueless post on your part. All this because some people process the test information slower and need 17.5 or 35 minutes extra. 17.5 or 35 minutes is basically an entire day, right? God forbid someone take an extra 35 minutes writing their law papers, clearly they're useless and should never be a lawyer.
I'd love to see the exam dropped to 30 minutes and how quickly people like you shit your pants and suddenly realize this gives an unfair advantage to stupider people than you who can simply read or focus better. Because that's exactly how nonsense posts like this make me feel.
If you'd agree I'd love to administer a prep test for you, any test you haven't already taken. I'll give you 20 minutes to complete it, and don't ask me for any more time, that's a slippery slope. If you don't score well then tough, suck it up, work harder. So what if you don't think 20 minutes is enough time to demonstrate your reasoning abilities, this is LIFE, you don't get extra time in the real world.
What??
ReplyDeleteI call fake. No way. I want proof.
Sorry Steve. You had to have gotten duped on this one. I would have heard the floodgates!
I have ADD and a visual processing disorder. As a student, I have the option to take exams in a separate, private, distraction-free room, to have extra time, to use a computer for essay exams. Sometimes, depending on the nature of the exam, I make use of the accommodations to which I am entitled. Sometimes I don't. It depends on the type of exam and the time allotted.
ReplyDeleteI took the LSAT twice. The first time, I didn't bother to apply for accommodated testing because I didn't want that little asterisk by my name. I was seated right by the door and lost a ton of time looking up every single time someone got up to use the rest room. I ran out of time on two sections and got a 165.
I also didn't ask for accommodated testing the second time around. I figured that LSAC would see a score in the 92nd percentile and immediately reject my application. Instead, I politely asked the proctor to seat me somewhere away from the door and she was kind enough to do so. If she'd declined, I'd have lived with that. (It wouldn't have mattered that much anyway. Unlike my first time, everyone in the room was glued to their seats until we were released for break.) I ran out of time on one section due to my own stupid mistake in diagraming a logic game. I scored a 173.
Could I have done better in a room by myself? Probably. Could I have done better with extra time or breaks? Abso-freaking-lutely. That having been said, I don't think that my ADD inhibits my ability to perform so badly as to merit extra time, and certainly not double time. Without ADD, I might have managed to score better my first time around, and maybe instead of a 173, I'd be looking at a 175 or so for the second time out. An extra five minutes might have been the difference between a 173 and a 177ish. An extra 35 minutes might have been the difference between a 173 and a 180. If I could have asked for just one accommodation, though, it would have been permission to drink from my water bottle during the exam. My meds leave me with severe dry mouth, and I'm never without a beverage.
I'm an adult. I have a disability that I have worked hard to learn to manage. Some things are harder for me than they are other people. That's life. I think I brought more advantages than disadvantages to the LSAT. English is my first language, I learned to read at a young age and never stopped, I'm reasonably intelligent, and because I *knew* that I'd be taking it as a person with ADD and one for whom logic games would be especially challenging due to my visual processing problems, I studied my butt off. I ran myself through 6-section prep tests with 30 minutes per section so that I could acclimate myself to working quickly and accurately. I studied in busy restaurants where the people around me were a hundred times more distracting than a room full of test takers. Instead of asking LSAC to accommodate me, I came up with ways to accommodate myself.
That being said, even without ADD, the average LSAT test taker isn't scoring a 173, or even a 165. I worked *hard,* yes, but I'm someone for whom any accommodations on the LSAT would mean only a few points, numerically, and even fewer points as a percentile. I might feel differently if I was scoring around 150. (Of course, if I was scoring around 150, I probably wouldn't be applying to law school. The employment prospects of the schools I'm looking at scare me to death, and I'm barely looking past the top 14. The thought of trying to find work out of a second- or third-tier school makes me ill.)
Even putting aside the issue of the slippery slope, allowing such accomodations breeds abuse. I'm at a top 14 school, and the number of my classmates who abuse this process is horrifying. Curves are tough, and after the first semester of 1L year, several people in my section who were dissatisfied with their grades decided that their best hope of boosting their GPA was to get an ADD diagnosis and get extra time (after all, not everybody can have that 4.0). They even bragged that it was so easy, all you had to do was read up on the symptoms, go into the school clinic and cry that you have them, and you get "diagnosed." It's truly shocking how easy it is to abuse the process, and every year I hear more an more people are doing this to boost grades and land a job in the competative jobs market.
ReplyDeleteThis is B/S. I was diagnosed with ADD when I was in 5th grade and have lived with it my entire life- without ever once disclosing it on any school records! It makes me livid to hear that others with this same "disability" take advantage of it. Please, you guys. We already get prescriptions for Adderall- isn't that ENOUGH of an advantage?
ReplyDeleteI hate that some think simple prescriptions or drugs are the answer to this. They are not. I had a horrific experience on both Ridlen* and Adderall. My the side-effects were too strong, I had crazy mood swings and hated touching certain objects. Above all, i hated touching paper for about 6 months until the drugs were out of my system.
DeleteI have ADD and disagree with THAT amount of extra time. I think the test taker should be given a private room and some extra time, but not double.
- Also having ADD and being in a silent room doesn't balance the field, we still get stuck on the most random thoughts or objects lol. Not allowing the disability testing would cause some to freak out on the guy that keeps scratching his head, or the ONE girl that MUST tap her pencil etc etc
First of all, not all of us with ADD take medications. I do not because when I tried them, I had horrible side effects. I had to rely on persistence in scheduling everything I have to do and breaking down tasks. Even with this I still struggle. The LSAC has a very stringent approval process to ensure that people are not just milking the system. They require several forms filled out by your doctor, records of testing confirming diagnosis (the tests for ADD take 6 hours or more usually and can cost hundreds, even thousands of dollars, and that's after you finally find a doctor who you can see who will do the tests and get you in).
DeleteOh and by the way, I am a 2nd year law student and got here just fine. Sure, I am not in the top 10%... but I got through 1L. People need to stop their whining.
ReplyDeleteNot everyone gets to be an astronaut. It is unfortunate, but its the truth. If there is a standardized test used for admission, there should be a standard set of rules for admissions. If you can't handle the test for admissions or the time constraints of a profession, maybe you should seek another career. Doctors don't get time and a half to perform surgery that takes a precise amount of time, and lawyers don't get time and a half to file complaints or respond to interrogatories, or any number of activities. I'm sorry to be offensive, but it is not fair to continue to make excuses for why some people get babied or coddled when they can't compete on a level playing field.
ReplyDeleteSorry Anonymous, but in real life you don't work against an arbitrary time barrier when you file complaints, respond to interrogatories etc. No one is standing next to your desk timing you.
ReplyDeleteThe time limit imposed by the test makers serves to facilitate a majority of takers, but deny's a minority who happen to respond to standardized testing differently.
The astronaut analogy is a poor one. An astronaut requires superior physical attributes like vision hearing, balance, etc. And they actually do need them to safely perform their job. Extra time won't help there.
@Cefalu thank you! I am appalled and thoroughly disturbed that so few people on here do not understand this concept. The duties of a lawyer you mentioned (ie.: filing complaints, etc.) are very different from sitting in a room where you are confined to a desk in silence and know you're being timed under serious pressure. All of these things combined, while they do make it easier to test a lot of people at once the same way, in turn are detrimental to someone whose mind and/or body functions differently (disability can be physical, developmental, cognitive, behavioral, etc. and to varying degrees). Is it okay to deny a diabetic person from extra breaks to take their insulin, or allow someone with dyslexia extra time? What if we don't allow people to be tested in a wheelchair accessible room? Too many people see/hear the words 'disability accommodations' and automatically assume everyone who needs something is just trying to get an advantage. It is very sad that people who want to be lawyers, people whose job is to fight injustice, seem to believe in discriminatory behavior.
DeleteThis is my letter to LSAC after I submitted a 37 page reeport from a psyhcoanalyst who tested me on with a psychoeducational/ neuropsychological evaluation in which LSAC requested. I'm a 58 year old retired stockbroker who really wants to go to law school. They originally dednied me becaause they said that I didn't have accommodation in school but I went to school over 35 years age before they even knew what ADD/ADHD was. I was just diagnosed this past summer. They tried Adderell which didn't help me. Now they have me on Ritalin and I'm not seeing any improvement. The Doctor put in his report that I need 30 more minutes on each section and 15 minutes beetween sections. I have to disagree with a lot of people who posted on this blog. I really need the extra time. Also besides having ADHD I'm also blind in one eye which makes me a slow reader (I just lost my eye sight in my right eye within the last 10 years. So please to all you superstars that are telling me how good you did with your disabilities stick it up your snooty little asses.
ReplyDeleteI recently applied to LSAC for accommodated testing due to the fact that I have ADHD. You denied me because I have never had accommodations while I was in elementary school which was 45 years ago, high school which was 39 years ago, and college which was 34 years ago, before they even knew what ADHD was. ADHD was first introduced as an official disorder with the National Institute of Mental Health naming a group of characteristics as Attention Deficit Disorder +/- Hyperactivity in 1980. In 1987, the name was revised to "Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder. In 1998, the American Medical Association stated that ADHD was one of the most researched disorders, despite the fact that its cause is unknown.
I was just diagnosed within the last several years. I left school 34 years ago with one year remaining for my bachelors and went back several years ago and finished. I was tested by the University of Connecticut psychology department upon request of the Disabilities Resource Center at Southern Connecticut State University in which I’ve attached a copy of the report to this fax that says in the last paragraph on page two that Dr. Katz recommends extending mild accommodations to me.
This test was administered in my last semester when I had only three classes, Media Law and Ethics in which there were three papers, a midterm and a final which were take home exams, Communications Research which had five 10 question quizzes that were administered through the schools black board system (an online system for students) and a midterm and a final which were open book tests, and a Broadcast Journalism class that we got assignments and we had to write a 30 to 60 second sound bites for. The final for this class was a group project in which the class was broken up into three groups and had to tape a news program, so as you can see I never really needed the accommodations for these classes.
I would really appreciate if you would reconsider my application for accommodated testing. I am having a lot of trouble finishing more than 50% of my practice tests at Test Masters prep due to the fact that I am blind in my right eye and I have ADHD. Please I'm begging you; I really would love to go to law school.
Thank you,
Anthony Guerino Jr.
If you are seeking accommodations for the LSAT, commenting on here isn't enough. Go to
Deletewww.lsac.org/jd/lsat/accommodated-testing
You need to fill out Candidate Form, Evidence of Disability, and Statement of Need. All of these will be used for you to give your personal info, outline what you're seeking, what your disabilities are, and why you need the accommodations so your lsat score will best reflect your true abilities. I strongly suggest getting copies of all of this documentation you have (records of the most recent tests from your doctors, any records of similar accommodations, referrals to specialists, etc.) and including those in with the appropriate forms. The link I provided shows how you can get the documentation to them. You have to be registered for an lsat date before they process your applications, and they must receive all of the documentation by your test date's standard deadline (earlier is better).
You don'tknow what it is like to dealwith serious ADD/ADHD unless you actually have it. Having the disorder versus being a lazy, uninterested, and incapable person are two different things. In fact, many people who suffer from ADD/ADHD tend to be more intelligent than those who do not. They are just unable to focus their thoughts as well, being distracted by multiple stimuli that an average person would not even notice while taking a test
ReplyDeleteExactly correct. I as well have ADD/ADHD and this entire discussion is a little ridiculous. I received 158 on my first practice test I took without any knowledge of the test or prior studying. I have been tested multiple times, my parents spent thousands of dollars on end to diagnosis and correctly classify my disabilities so I COULD receive any benefit available. Being diagnosed with ADD does not make you a schemer who should feel guilty about getting advantages others don't have.
DeleteAnyone in there right mind will take every opportunity to level the playing field any time they can. To sit back and assume because the systems abused, that people with disabilities should not get special treatment, is unfounded with incredible bias.
Every day I'm constantly trying to rework my mental framework in order to better deal with my disabilities. People with severe ADD/ADHD/DYSLEXIA have to put forth so much more effort to perform a simple logic breakdown in there head without spinning off thinking about something else, than the rest of the population. People don't realize this and how could they unless personally suffering from the same issues, so I don't hold grudges, just a lack of tolerance for ignorance.
time and a half + methamphetamines = unfaired advantaged.
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one who finds it ironic that a bunch of future lawyers have moral issues with exploiting a loop hole?
ReplyDeletebruh
DeleteI can't process time. Unless you have ADD, you don't know what it's like. Your brain doesn't work in the same way as a non-ADD person. The medication doesn't magically fix the problems. Managing ADD still requires an exhausting amount of work.
ReplyDeleteMy brain doesn't work like a non-ADD person. -And a non-ADD brain doesn't work like mine. I bring an intrinsic creativity and intuitive thought that seems unique to the ADD brain. In the real world, it's productivity that matters. My ADD brain excels at finding solutions to real world problems that the people, who are good at showing up on time, cannot.
Ideally, time-limits, as a measure of achievement, should be abolished so that there is a level playing field.
I'm responding to "Most importantly, what will happen to these would-be lawyers when they have to take their law school exams and the bar? Will they get double-time then, too?". I am an attorney. I also struggle with ADHD. I may be slower to get things done, but I have been a highly effective and successful lawyer for nearly 2 decades. Many lawyers bill by what they are doing today and not by how many hours they spend accomplishing the task. And many more lawyers are in jobs that do not bill clients at all. Maybe before you write a snarky blog post like this one, you should get to know real folks with this real struggle and how we are doing in life. You seem to lack real life knowledge in what you are writing about.
ReplyDelete100% - this blog post is extremely ignorant, it is clear that you are misinformed. First, medication is not everyone's remedy. For example, I have ADHD and cannot take medication due to a heart condition. Sometimes I need accommodations for testing, sometimes I don't. Just because people are being easily prescribed adderall without a proper diagnosis, does not mean it's made up. It's a neurological condition that physically causes differentiation in the brain. Some people can tolerate their ADHD better, and others, like myself who has overlapping tourette's symptoms, cannot control their impulses or hyperactiveness. Telling someone with a mental disorder that they need to get used to reality, is just as insensitive as telling a disabled person that expecting handicapped ramps is a personal problem...This comment section is extremely disappointing. The LSAT is just one part of the journey to being a lawyer, it is not a measure of one's intellectual capability whatsoever.
DeleteThanks for the post and great tips..even I also think that hard work is the most important aspect of getting success..
ReplyDeleteGetting Adderall Online